Lego Joker vs Jack Horner

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“Pie throwing is kind of a lost art, and although it may be a rather rudimentary, burlesque humor, there’s something inherently funny about taking a pie in the face, under the right conditions."

— Johnny Carson

The Joker, Lego Dc's clown prince of crime and nemesis to Batman

Jack Horner, The big and bad pie making outlaw of the Shrek Universe

Every great story has a villain, most have one, some have several, even if they aren't physical there still is an antagonistic force to drive the story, while some are more thought provoking, some are just plan evil and chaotic, with no more of a classic example being these two combatants. But if these two madmen faced each other head on, who w will end up with a pie in the face? Will The Joker get the last laugh? or will Jack turn his story into a mere fairy tale? today it's time to decide who would win a Death Battle!

Before We Begin

For this blog, we will only be using certain meda for both.

For Jack, we'll be using: -all shrek films including PIB and its sequel, -the PIBs show, -comics and other books that, are connected to the universe, -and games to round it out. For Joker, we will be using: -the OG Batman trilogy, -DC supervillains, -certain short films that are connected to the main timeline, -and only feats done in Lego Dimensions such as cutscenes. We will not be using The Legos Batman Movie as the Lego Movies are part of a complete different universe, which is confirmed by Lego Dimensions. Speaking of which, no we will not be cross scaling for either character, including any cammios or easter eggs like Puss being in the Madagascar show, Shrek and Donkey appearing in KFP. Or any other universes even some that are actually directly scalable, like Sonic, Homer, the Doctor, and several others in LD, or even scaling to other actual lego series like Harry Potter, Lord of the rings, the lego movies, etc. Although the feats characters have done in said crossovers will count for this blog.

Background

Lego Joker

"Let's put a few smiles on some faces, shall we?"

In the world of pop culture few villains exist that are more iconic than The Dark Knight's arch enemy, Gotham's clown prince of crime, The Joker. The Joker first appeared as an enemy of Batman in a comic released in the spring of 1940. Overtime The laughing madman would become the caped crusader's number one villain, and the two have been battling each other for nearly a century. From pages within a comic to theatrical movies on the big screan, few rivalies are as well known as that of Batman and The Joker. But neither of them could have expected that one day they would be fighting as brick built minifigures in a lego platformer game.

To promote the Lego Batman sets released in the mid 2000s, Tell Tale developed and released a game titled "Lego Batman: The Video Game" in 2008. The game follows Lego Batman and Robin who must defeat Batman's rouge's gallery who have escaped from Arkham Asylum, including The Joker. The game was a success and would spawn a sequel with Joker taking the role as the main villain along with Lex Luther. But Batman and Robin weren't alone since they had the justice league on their side, so The Joker had to step us his game match. The Joker's sorigin is similar to his comic counterpoint, where not much is known other than that he fell into a vat of acid and went insane. Unlike other iterations of The Joker that portray him as a complete psychopath, Lego Joker more embodies the chaotic yet goofy and silly nature of the character. He's also not completely evil and has even teamed up with Batman and The Justice League in later games to save the world from the big bads of Dc such as Brainiac and Darkseid.

Jack Horner

 "Little Jack Horner's dead, I'm Big Jack Horner Now!"

The animated movie industry wouldn't be the same without the famous green ogre you may know as Shrek and his first movie in 2001. The movie would be a massive success and would be what catapulted Dreamworks Animations into mainstream popularity. The Shrek franchise would go on to make 2 sequels (Shrek the third doesn't exist) as well as a spin-off movie with one of it's most iconic side characters, everyone's favorite fearless hero, Puss in Boots. The movie would have a mixed reception from critics but the same cannot be said for its sequel that came out 11 years later, Puss in Boots: The Last Wish. The Last Wish has been regarded as one of the best animated films of all time due to it's stellar animation, deep writing, and it's villains, including a being comprised of pure evil itself, Big Jack Horner.

Jack Horner wasn't always the power obsessed villain he is today, a long time ago he was just Little Jack Horner. As the nursery rhyme goes, little Jack Horner sat in the corner eating a Christmas Pie. He put out his thumb and pulled out a plum and said "what a good boy am I!". Little Jack Horner had a perfect child and would have success as a performer until he was upstaged by Pinnochio. On that day Little Jack Horner died, and Big Jack Horner was born. Jack would grow up to inherit his familie's pie making buisness whilst collecting items, weapons,  and artifacts across the fairy tale world. But despite having everything a guy could want, Jack was never satisfied since he could never get what he wanted most, all the magic in the world. But when the wishing war fell from the sky, Jack decided he was going to do whatever it took to make his twisted dream become a reality.

Intelligence and Experience

The Joker

While best known for being a madman, the Joker is surprisingly smart and clever, including the lego version, not only being able to consistently escape custody, but also is a skilled builder aswell, making not only temporary objects simply to gain hight or more other objects, but several vehicles and weapons he uses too, only exceptions being "toys" made by Lex Luther and even then Lex did seek out joker for the skills he brings. The most impressive being his skill with chemistry and chemical formulas, such as being able to make his notorious Joker toxin on the fly, seemingly with random things that he knew what to do with. He also knew the exact chemical formula to make nearly perfect kryptonite, similar enough to trick batman to being to batcave, allowing Joker and Lex to track and find the cave to steal the actual kryptonite. He also has a fair amount of experience under his belt with his presumably many bouts with Batman and other heros.

Jack Horner

Being one of the most powerful criminals in the Shrek universe Jack has a good amount of experience under his belt. He spent years collecting numorous magical artifacts across fairy tail world, but it's unsure whether he went on quests to find these himself or just hired his subordinates like what he did to get the wishing star map. Jack has some semblence of weapon's mastery but his aim isn't always the sharpest like when he accidentally took out most of baker's dozen with a crossbow while trying to kill Puss. Despite having lots and lots of weapons he doesn't seem to have much knowlege on their abilities, like how he didn't know the unicorn horns turn people into confetti. He's also been tricked by other characters which is what led to his defeat. But credit Jack will get is that he is completely ruthless and doesn't ever hesitate. He also was able to run a succcessful buisness and crime orgination which definently counts for something.

Equipment

The Joker

Weapons

Guns

The Joker uses several guns throughout the lego Batman series, the most notable of which being his tommy gun which can fire bullets rapidly.

Joy Buzzer

One of his most iconic weapons, The Joker has a buzzer attached to his hand which he can use to zap and even knock out opponents.

Acid Flower

Another one of his most iconic weapons, Joker has a flower that can spray acid when activated. 

Joker Venom 

One of The Joker's most powerful weapons is his Joker venom which he can spray to make his opponents laugh uncontrollably.

"BANG" Gun

One of Joker's gun can fire a flag that says "BANG". This is functionally useless besides gags. 

Explosives

Joker uses several explosives including his famous pie bombs.

Chatter Teeth Drone

Joker can summon a chatter teeth drone which he can detonate on comand.

Grappling Hook

Self explanatory, Joker has a grappling hork he uses to swing and pull stuff down.

Extendable Limbs

Joker has weapons that fire a fist attached to a spring for ranged attacks.

Spoony

A spoon Joker can use to deflect lasers

The Deconstructor

One of the Joker's most powerful weapons, the deconstructor was a device built by Lex Luther with the ability to infuse dark colored objects with kryptonite which dismantles and destroys them. The weapon is mainly used for breaking apart structures and objects but it also works on characters too.

Suits

In Lego Batman 3 Joker has an array of suits that he can instantly swap into all of which having different abilities.

Decoy Suit

Allows Joker to desploy chattering teeth drones.

Demolition Suit

Allows Joker to shoot missiles and place bombs.

Eletric Suit

Allows Joker to walk in electrified areas and conduct electricity.

Flower Suit

Gives Joker the ability of mind control.

Illumination Suit

Allows Joker to light up dark areas.

Magnet Suit

Allows Joker to walk up walls and pull magnetic objects.

Sphere Suit

Allows Joker to turn into a ball, that's basically it

Goons and Henchmen

Being a crime boss, Joker can summon goons and henchmen at his becon call to do is dirty work. The goons cary guns similar to The Joker's.

Vehicles

Van

Joker has a van which he uses to transport him and his goons around gotham city on land. Besides being an ice cream truck, it doesn't have any abilities beyond that.

Helicopter

Joker has a helicopter he uses to travel in the skies of gotham. The helicopter is armed with missiles and rockets on the side 

Speedboat

Joker has a speadboat he uses to travel on water. Like the helicopter, the boat is armed with missiles and rockets.

Joker Robot

Without a doubt The Joker's most powerful weapon is his Joker Robot built by Lex Luther. The mech comes equiped with Joker venom, missiles, a joy buzzer, mini mechs that can be deployed, and lasers. 

Jack Horner

Weapons and Artifacts

Magic Nanny Bag

Jack owns the magical nanny bag, a bag with a seemingly endless supply of space that Jack uses to carry his weapons on his journey.

Midas Touch

Jack owns a stature of King Midas' hand which turns people to gold upon contact. Even though we never seen it turn objects besides humans to gold in the movie, it's safe to assume it can.

Trident

Jack owns a magical trident that can manipulate water and summon huge waves

Magic Carpet

Jack owns a magic carpet with the ability to fly.

Parasol

Jack owns a magic parasol that can levitate and likely float in the air.

Magic Wand

Jack owns a magic wand with the ability of transmutation. Even though it's not the fairy godmother's wand from Shrek 2, it should be reasonable to assume the wands likely have simmilar properties.

Baker's Dozen

Jack has at his command the Baker's Dozen, a group of twelve of his henchmen that carry hammers, knives, saws, and other various deadly weapons.

Death Tank

Using the previously mentioned magic man Jack used it to transform a pumpkin into his Death Tank to use for his quest for the wishing star.  The tank is armed with spikes on the sides and can carry Jack as well as his Baker's Dozen.

Crystal Ball

Jack owns a magical crystal ball that he uses to watch Puss and co on their journey. The ball might also be able to look into the future like when Jack sees himself with all the magic in the world, but this ability is unlikely. 

Excalibur

Jack owns and wields the mighty sword excalibur.

The Phoenix

Jack owns the noble Phoenix which he can use as a boss flamethrower.

Ethical Bug

Jack can summon the Ethical Bug who acts as Jack's conscious throughout his journey, but this is of course a futile effort.

Crossbow and Unicorn Horns

Jack has a crossbow which he can use to launch the unicorn horns he owns. When the horns hit someone it instantlty causes them to explode into confetti.

Poison Apple Bombs

Jack owns poison apple bombs which create light green explosions. Jack can use these has hand grenades.

Magic Scepter

Jack owns a sceptor capable of shooting magical blasts.

Magic Snacks

Jack owns a magic drink and a magic cookie. The drink has the ability of to shrink the user and the cookie has the ability to grow the user. 

Feats

Lego Joker

Overall 

• Served as the main antagonist in one of the most iconic and beloved Lego games
• Busted several of Batman's villains out of Arkham asylum 
• Teamed up with Lex Luther to help him with the election
• Helped the Justice League stop Brainiac from collecting Earth
• Helped assemble the greatest villains in the world
• Worked under Lord Vortech in his takeover of the Lego Dimensions multiverse

Power

• Battled Batman time and time again
• Tanked Darkseid's omega beam
• Survived a fall in Joker Bot (multi city block)
• Survived a massive pie explosion in the Batcave (building level)
• Survived an explosion created from an array of screens (building level)

Joker Bot 

• Burst out of LexCorp and destroyed the roof (multi city block)
• Battled the Justice League

Speed

• Can dodge attacks from Batman

Joker Bot 

• Quickly scaled LexCorp
• Matches the Batmobile's speed
• Caught the Flash after Joker tricked him

Jack Horner

Overall

• Served as one of the main antagonists in one of dreamwork's highest acclaimed movies ever
• Is the owner of a highly successful pie buisness
• Owns the biggest fairy tale artifact collection in the world
• Nearly achieved his goal of obtaining the wishing star
• Battled Puss In Boots and co nearly all by himself
• Reminding people why pure evil villains are so good in an age of twist villains

Power

• Strong enough to throw the trident
• Swung Excaliber hard enough to break the stone it was attached to

Speed

• Death Tank chased Puss in Boots and co across the dark forest
• Able to keep up with Puss in Boots and co in his battle against them

Scaling

The Joker

Before we get into scaling The Joker there are things we'll have to establish. Has said before, cross scaling via lego dimensions will be excluded so no scaling The Joker to Homer Simpson, Sonc the Hedgehog, The Doctor, etc. 

Even though lego games allow you to play in the open world and levels as any character, Joker will not be able to scale to any character just because the player kills them as The Joker in freeplay. In the levels in the storymode, Joker will only be able to scale to characters that are playable in original storymode of the level. For example, if you fight The Joker aas Batman in the main story mode but play the level again in the free play mode as superman, Joker could only get Batman scaling since that is the character playable in the original story mode.

Batman and The Justice League

Throughout the course of the Lego Batman games Joker has fought against and alongside Batman and The Justice League, the team of earth's mightiest defenders. Joker should directly scaled to Batman and should debatably be somewhat comparable or downscale other members of the Justice League in reaction speed ot physically with his Joker Bot.

Power

• Batman's demolishion suit bombs decimated the Batcomputer (city block level)
• Battled Steppenwolf who destroyed a train car (low Town Level)
• Superman survived a hit from Darkseid's omega beam which crashed him into his ship (low town level)
• Green Lantern created an explosion from space (country level)
• Superman can battle off Brainiac's shrinking rays which can shrink planets (planet level) (debatable)

Speed

• Flash can move so fast that cars can be seen as stationary
• Characters react to Superman's lasers
• Characters react to Darkseid's lasers (0.2 FTL)
• Green Lantern launched a construct into space (MFTL)

Jack Horner

Puss in Boots

The most notable and important character Jack Horner could scale to is the legendary fearless hero himself, Puss in Boots. Considering the Last Wish takes place at the end of the Shrek timeline, any feats of Puss that he did before the events of the movie should be valid to include. Jack should reasonably scale or atleast downscale to him considering he fights Puss and co in a nearly 1 vs 6 in the battle for the wishing star and can keep up with them. And even then Jack's giant form should upscale in power.

Power

• Survived attacks from the Great Terror (Small Building)
• Battles Shrek who threw Donkey into space (City)
• Battled the Great Mage Sino who can generate a force field around the earth (Island to Mountain)
• Battled Taranis and Toutatis, the latter being able to stop Earthquakes (Island)

Speed

• Able to attack Shrek
• Dodged attacks from the giant Goose (Subsonic)
• Can dodge attacks from Lorezo Lapis Lazuli (Relativistic)
• Reacted to a beam by the Blood Wolf which went to the moon (Relativistic+)

Weaknesses

The Joker

Despite being the rival to the bat himself, there are reasons why he always end up back in Arkham. Even with his above average intelligence, he almost never takes threats seriously at first, leaving himself open. As well as his child like demeanor can make him quite gullible to obvious tratics. He is also very vane, meaning he tends to do things to support his image, and can be easily distracted by things that also improve his image as well.

Jack Horner

Even with his massive collection of items he has gained, Jack is far from invincible. His greed make him easily distracted by valuable items, power, or offers. Adding on to this, Jack's ego also often gets to him, making him fall into distractions easier, overlooking true threats, and more prone to mistakes. Jack also tends to not care much about his resource management, which can get him to lack weapons that he'd need in a pinch. This makes his poor aim and lack of empathy even worse, as he could very quickly waste through his weapons and henchmen, later being vulnerable due to lacking these resources.

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Enjoy : )

Verdicts

Stats

On paper, it may seem that Jack is physically stronger then Joker, even with him scaling to explosions that get to the Town levels of range, it can not compare to the Mountain to even island levels that Jack can get to simply by scaling to Puss. However it's not that simple, as the Jokerbot can easily take on the justice league, including Green Lantern, who's constructs can create country levels of energy, and Superman, who could fight off Brainiac's planet shrinking lasers (although this is debatable) and still needed a collaborative effort and removing its power to truly take it down. This means that while Jack only needs one to break Joker, Joker could potentially only need one hit in his mech to crush Jack, and while yes it's true that Joker needs his bot while Jack just needs to punch, both Jack and Joker have longer ranged weapons and tools (more about that in the next section) that make Jack getting that hit in way more difficult then you would think. As well has Jokers henchmen being able to bring him his weapons and tools if needed, and this includes the Jokerbot.

This all would be the same with durability, as the Jokerbot can survive construct based attacks from Green Lantern. "So then it would come down to speed right? Jack is faster then Joker so he should win."

Well again, it's not that simple, while it's true that Jack is a decent portion faster then Joker, that's in reaction speed and not travel or attack speed. Jack can react at these speeds, but not move or attack that fast, meanwhile, Jokers vehicles and suits (also in the next section) makes him have way more and unpredictable ways to move compared to Jack that it makes it hard for him to land any attacks anyway. With high ends regarding speed for both however, Joker could potentially be MUCH faster with Green Lantern scaling at MFTL but this is debatable.

Weapons and Arsenal

Both The Joker and Jack Horner have a lot of weapons that they can throw at each other throughout the battle. Starting with their more basic arsenal, both have good ranged options like Joker’s missiles and Jack’s scepter blasts so neither could reliably get the edge from a distance. Joker's toxic resistance means he could potentially be immune to Jack's poison apples. In direct melee combat The Joker has a slight edge with his extendable fists and hand buzzer when compared to Jack’s simple swords and axes. When it comes to their vehicles it’s no surprise that The Joker has the advantage in this regard. Jack’s death tank is a very powerful vehicle that can come in handy but The Joker has not only his ice cream trucks, but also his helicopters that give him a massive advantage in the air. Jack’s best options for air mobility being the parasol and magic carpet don’t provide much defense and he likely won’t have full control over how to utilize them. Fortunately for Jack however, if he knows how to use the trident he can render Joker’s boats useless by forming giant waves to destroy them. In addition Jack could potentially match Joker’s Joker bot in size with his magic cookie. 

Both have useful henchmen at their command but Joker is likely to have more in battle with his seemingly unlimited amount of Goon’s compared to Jack’s Baker’s dozen. Now when it comes to their more interesting weapons both have good options. Starting with The Joker, his laughing gas is incredibly useful for halting Jack and his crew’s momentum with its area of effect. Jack’s unicorn crossbow is incredibly deadly in this fight since Joker has no resistance to poofing into confetti if it hits, but it is worth noting he only has 12 shots. In addition, Jack’s midas touch if used properly could completely disable Joker’s vehicles including the Joker mech. Now when it comes to Joker’s suits, most of them aren’t super useful in this fight except for two, the electric suit and the flower suit. The Electric suit adds to Jokers ranged options, but it's also not a physical object unlike the majority of them, and given the nature of electricity, it could stun Jack as long is it physically hits his flesh, and possibly bypassing his durability, tho to a very minor extent. As for the Flower suit, it's mind control which Jack has no resistance to would spell his doom especially if Joker was paying attention to the fight and makes Jack use his one shot options on himself. This would be difficult for Joker to hit however but he could likely easily do it while Jack is stunned from the laughing gas. 

Intelligence, Skill, and Experience

Both Jack and Joker are way better in this category then people give credit for, but who is superior in this regard? Well first with skill, both Jack and Joker are very capable in combat skill, however, Joker is just better equipped for physical tussles and has demonstrated more of them directly compared to Jack. On to experience, while Jack is likely older then Joker (and thus more overall experience), Joker is more experienced in combat both physical and at distance and with a wider variety of foes(at least with what we are shown, as we don't know exactly what Jack's been up to on his previous expeditions). As for intelligence, Jack hasn't shown many feats to say that he is smarter then the average human IQ, while Joker, dispite his child like demeanor, has shown many times that he is way smarter then he looks, him making most of his weapons himself, scaling to captain cold who is smart enough to make a new cold gun out of nothing but bed springs and soap, and knowing the exact chemical formula to make not just his signature gas, but also fake kryponite, so it's pretty clear cut who takes intelligence here. Finally it's worth noting both of their dispositions. Jack is more ruthless than Joker but is less level headed. On the contrary, Joker is more strategic in battle but is less likely to take the ight seriously. Both of their traits in battle could possibly be taken advantage of by their opponent.

Conclusion

"This time Lex, I'm going to pull Batman apart! Literally"

Advantages:

• Way faster with Lantern Scaling
• Greater advantage in the air
• Smarter and more tactical
• more equipped for melee combat
• Could mind control Jack
• Joker Mech is way stronger than base Jack
• Easier access to henchmen
• Laughing Gas could hault Jack's momentum
• Lego DC Supervillains is Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League but better

Disadvantages:

• Slower without Lantern scaling
• Way weaker in base
• No counter to transmutation
• Less likely to take the fight seriously
• Last game released in 2019

"It's so cute how you think that would work on me! Don't you know I'm dead inside?"

Advantages:

• Faster without Lantern scaling
• Way stronger in base
• Could instantly win the fight with unicorn horns
• could potentially disable Joker's vehicles or kill him with Midas touch
• Trident makes Joker's boats useless
• Easier access to arsenal with Nanny Bag
• More ruthless
• Rap Battled Dr. Eggman

Disadvantages:

• Weaker than Joker Mech
• Way slower with Lantern scaling
• Limited amount of unicorn horns
• Bigger target
• Less level headed in battle
• Doesn't have full knowledge on his arsenal
• Can't turn into a ball

Team Lego Joker (3)- Creepy is in the Megazard!, Shinx, Sebastian the Crab

Team Jack Horner (2)- Dominator, G-Toasty

So overall, while Jack's strength, speed, and deadly weapons could certainly win net him the win in many scenarios, The Joker's own array of weapons and vehicles along with his sheer intelligence made it more than likely that he would be the one to skip away from this battle with all his peices intact.

The winner is The Joker

Next time